Retiring out with 1 ball left is cheating, period. End of discussion. It is match-fixing., to be honest, it is pure match fixing, it is creating a result that is unnatural and unfair, unfair to the opposition, to the spectators, the league and sponsors..
I recall I think it was Herscelle Gibbs in India, in a one day game, not being able to walk off the ground has he had cramps, but carried on playing, he was going to die on the hill defending his right to play regardless of his own circumstance, he was for the team, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TO ME.. He was a better player he felt in his state than a new batter coming in...
So the rules allow it, the rules shou,d change, and if you want to retire out, fine, but it costs 12 runs... And number 11 comes in next... Oh you want your number 3 batter? Ok, that will cost 18 penalty runs...
"Mankad"-ing should not be out, a simple 12 run penalty for each attempt, in a tight game, 12 runs is huge...
Just a side note, the 1st test at Lord's when both teams Eng and NZ each batted once and made barely anything, then a result in 2 days, sorry but how is that a test? It was a stupid 1 innings shoot out, and refunds offered.. Where is the spirit of the game there????
I saw recently that one of the greats of Indian Ladies recently retired, she had played hundreds of T20/ODI, but only 12 Tests.. in a career of almost 20 yrs.. One of the Sky Cricket commentators, was asked if she thought anyone would have a career in cricket in the ladies game of more than 12 Tests.. Her thoughts were "tests for ladies is impossible...She thought maybe in 20 yrs be lucky to play 6..."
Cricket is very close to becoming pointless, a bit like rugby, I see a local SA team made a final of some rugby championship, and to be honest, I really have no care who, the result or who plays who in the final, it is just one more final in a season of too many finals...
New Zealand are the world test champions, but truly does this actually mean anything?
Always enjoy your comments, Justine. Always thought-provoking. Although, if a sporting action does not contravene the rules and regulations of that sport as defined by its governiong bodies, then it can't, technically, be called "cheating". No matter how distasteful you find it...!
Yes, but the point is to encourage thought and debate, for example, Mankading, should it be out or worse 12 penalty runs, and a dot ball.. The idea of tactical outs, then we should re-define what T20/100 cricket is, give it a new name, BAZBALL.. The point is, different type of game, slightly different rules, like indoor cricket, it is like cricket, but different, so we call it Indoor...
I mourn the death of tests, of the 2 3 4 5 day games, of the days of Mike Atherton, Whatshisname, the Russell, defending their position,it was beautiful, I was in Kingsmead, when SA tried to fight off a loss against Australia, in the gloom, the drizzle, final day, final hour, and we lost with less than 20min left, all out..over red rover.. Damn that was a great day, yeah the loss hurt, but 5 days, of beautiful hard cricket...I miss VHS tapes, I miss the dairy delivering milk in bottles, having to be up at sparrow fart's to beat the sparrow's having their fill of cream...
I miss the days of true provincial sport, when if you made the province side, man you were a God, a legend before your time.. Now, truly I could care less, I remember no one cared when there was a weekend in the UK, in which there was across 2 leagues, only 1 team with more than 10% local English born educated players.. You can play for 40 or 60 teams within a 20 yr career.. Fly from game to game.. team to team..
What is this fly in, fly out doing to the game, the skills, the talent..The leagues are now retirement homes for tired players, not sure what is worse, them playing in 7 leagues a week, or crowding the comms box.. Which leaves no room for quality commentators.. Sky is full of hasbeens drivers... Boring to be honest, tired of the same old stories... I am old and old fashioned!!!
Well, clearly it's not "period, end of discussion" otherwise there would be no discussion! Much of your post strikes me both as rather curmudgeonly and simplistic. Why is it "unnatural and unfair"--any more than runners, Covid or concussion substitutes, fielding substitutes who are fitter than the player they've replaced, restrictions on the number of bouncers, the LBW rules about pitching outside leg stump or not playing a shot, or penalty runs for hitting a helmet placed in the place on the field least likely to cause inconvenience to the batting side?
What's wrong with Mankading? Your view there is completely illogical--it's the "cheating, unnatural and unfair" trying to steal a run by getting a head start that should be penalised by your logic, surely?!
And your comments on the Eng-NZ match at Lord's: do you ever even watch cricket?! A test doesn't stop being a test just because the first-innings scores are close--and what the relationship between close first-innings scores and the spirit of the game is, heaven only knows. There are a few things wrong with test cricket, some of which make matches very uncompetitive, but that really isn't one of them. It sounds like whingeing for the sake of having a moan--rather reinforced by the scattergun, troll-like arrangement of the "arguments" to include five different things virtually in consecutive sentences, with one or two things IN CAPITALS JUST SO WE REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW AWFUL THEY ARE!!!!! So we get it--you don't like cricket, rugby, close first-innings scores, mankading, Samit Patel retiring--anything you do like?
I'm not convinced, like you Neil, that these retirements will become that common--but one way I think they will is the situation where a batter is really struggling for form and is just eating up balls without scoring runs. How often have we heard people say "it would be better if s/he got out here"?
Well argued, Marek. Apologies for responding so late...I enjoyed reading your response a while ago but, as always, there was another deadline looming. This may sound heretical but, I've actually come to enjoy the idea of tactical retired outs. But they should cost the batting a team a delivery, just as a legitimate dismissal does.
I love cricket, I love the long 5 day format, the jousting, the result is only known on day 5, maybe, and a draw is a great result, when it seemed a loss was predicted..
There is a place and a space for the long and the short formats, but in this "modern" world, there is no place I guess for the 5 day game, the problem is that players get too used to 1 format and cannot easily adjust, this happens to actors, that play too long in 1 theatre, then move to another theatre, they forget how to leave the stage, as they are so used to where everything is.. It takes times to adjust to the dimensions of the new venue..
My views are not illogical, it is you being lazy and not understanding, or not wanting to invest in the ideas I proposed.. That is the problem, everyone wants answers...
There is a long standing view than in F1, 2022, Lewis was robbed.. But actually if you look at the results of Bahrain, Spain, Portugal, Bottas finished 3rd 3 times, Max 2nd 3 times, if you swop these results so that Max 3rd x 3, and Bottas 2nd x3, at the last race, with all that happened, Lewis would have won by 1 point... 3x3=9.. Lewis lost the whole season by 8 points, 9-8=1...
But no one accepts this, everyone is Lewis was robbed by Masi... Which is not factual, more correct is Bottas robbed Lewis, and hence Bottas was fired.. This makes more logical sense than saying car 44 was robbed...
What is wrong with a 12 run penalty instead of an out? It was a suggestion...Oh well..
Interesting read looking forward to how this impacts our game going forward
Retiring out with 1 ball left is cheating, period. End of discussion. It is match-fixing., to be honest, it is pure match fixing, it is creating a result that is unnatural and unfair, unfair to the opposition, to the spectators, the league and sponsors..
I recall I think it was Herscelle Gibbs in India, in a one day game, not being able to walk off the ground has he had cramps, but carried on playing, he was going to die on the hill defending his right to play regardless of his own circumstance, he was for the team, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TO ME.. He was a better player he felt in his state than a new batter coming in...
So the rules allow it, the rules shou,d change, and if you want to retire out, fine, but it costs 12 runs... And number 11 comes in next... Oh you want your number 3 batter? Ok, that will cost 18 penalty runs...
"Mankad"-ing should not be out, a simple 12 run penalty for each attempt, in a tight game, 12 runs is huge...
Just a side note, the 1st test at Lord's when both teams Eng and NZ each batted once and made barely anything, then a result in 2 days, sorry but how is that a test? It was a stupid 1 innings shoot out, and refunds offered.. Where is the spirit of the game there????
I saw recently that one of the greats of Indian Ladies recently retired, she had played hundreds of T20/ODI, but only 12 Tests.. in a career of almost 20 yrs.. One of the Sky Cricket commentators, was asked if she thought anyone would have a career in cricket in the ladies game of more than 12 Tests.. Her thoughts were "tests for ladies is impossible...She thought maybe in 20 yrs be lucky to play 6..."
Cricket is very close to becoming pointless, a bit like rugby, I see a local SA team made a final of some rugby championship, and to be honest, I really have no care who, the result or who plays who in the final, it is just one more final in a season of too many finals...
New Zealand are the world test champions, but truly does this actually mean anything?
Always enjoy your comments, Justine. Always thought-provoking. Although, if a sporting action does not contravene the rules and regulations of that sport as defined by its governiong bodies, then it can't, technically, be called "cheating". No matter how distasteful you find it...!
Yes, but the point is to encourage thought and debate, for example, Mankading, should it be out or worse 12 penalty runs, and a dot ball.. The idea of tactical outs, then we should re-define what T20/100 cricket is, give it a new name, BAZBALL.. The point is, different type of game, slightly different rules, like indoor cricket, it is like cricket, but different, so we call it Indoor...
I mourn the death of tests, of the 2 3 4 5 day games, of the days of Mike Atherton, Whatshisname, the Russell, defending their position,it was beautiful, I was in Kingsmead, when SA tried to fight off a loss against Australia, in the gloom, the drizzle, final day, final hour, and we lost with less than 20min left, all out..over red rover.. Damn that was a great day, yeah the loss hurt, but 5 days, of beautiful hard cricket...I miss VHS tapes, I miss the dairy delivering milk in bottles, having to be up at sparrow fart's to beat the sparrow's having their fill of cream...
I miss the days of true provincial sport, when if you made the province side, man you were a God, a legend before your time.. Now, truly I could care less, I remember no one cared when there was a weekend in the UK, in which there was across 2 leagues, only 1 team with more than 10% local English born educated players.. You can play for 40 or 60 teams within a 20 yr career.. Fly from game to game.. team to team..
What is this fly in, fly out doing to the game, the skills, the talent..The leagues are now retirement homes for tired players, not sure what is worse, them playing in 7 leagues a week, or crowding the comms box.. Which leaves no room for quality commentators.. Sky is full of hasbeens drivers... Boring to be honest, tired of the same old stories... I am old and old fashioned!!!
Well, clearly it's not "period, end of discussion" otherwise there would be no discussion! Much of your post strikes me both as rather curmudgeonly and simplistic. Why is it "unnatural and unfair"--any more than runners, Covid or concussion substitutes, fielding substitutes who are fitter than the player they've replaced, restrictions on the number of bouncers, the LBW rules about pitching outside leg stump or not playing a shot, or penalty runs for hitting a helmet placed in the place on the field least likely to cause inconvenience to the batting side?
What's wrong with Mankading? Your view there is completely illogical--it's the "cheating, unnatural and unfair" trying to steal a run by getting a head start that should be penalised by your logic, surely?!
And your comments on the Eng-NZ match at Lord's: do you ever even watch cricket?! A test doesn't stop being a test just because the first-innings scores are close--and what the relationship between close first-innings scores and the spirit of the game is, heaven only knows. There are a few things wrong with test cricket, some of which make matches very uncompetitive, but that really isn't one of them. It sounds like whingeing for the sake of having a moan--rather reinforced by the scattergun, troll-like arrangement of the "arguments" to include five different things virtually in consecutive sentences, with one or two things IN CAPITALS JUST SO WE REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW AWFUL THEY ARE!!!!! So we get it--you don't like cricket, rugby, close first-innings scores, mankading, Samit Patel retiring--anything you do like?
I'm not convinced, like you Neil, that these retirements will become that common--but one way I think they will is the situation where a batter is really struggling for form and is just eating up balls without scoring runs. How often have we heard people say "it would be better if s/he got out here"?
Well argued, Marek. Apologies for responding so late...I enjoyed reading your response a while ago but, as always, there was another deadline looming. This may sound heretical but, I've actually come to enjoy the idea of tactical retired outs. But they should cost the batting a team a delivery, just as a legitimate dismissal does.
I love cricket, I love the long 5 day format, the jousting, the result is only known on day 5, maybe, and a draw is a great result, when it seemed a loss was predicted..
There is a place and a space for the long and the short formats, but in this "modern" world, there is no place I guess for the 5 day game, the problem is that players get too used to 1 format and cannot easily adjust, this happens to actors, that play too long in 1 theatre, then move to another theatre, they forget how to leave the stage, as they are so used to where everything is.. It takes times to adjust to the dimensions of the new venue..
My views are not illogical, it is you being lazy and not understanding, or not wanting to invest in the ideas I proposed.. That is the problem, everyone wants answers...
There is a long standing view than in F1, 2022, Lewis was robbed.. But actually if you look at the results of Bahrain, Spain, Portugal, Bottas finished 3rd 3 times, Max 2nd 3 times, if you swop these results so that Max 3rd x 3, and Bottas 2nd x3, at the last race, with all that happened, Lewis would have won by 1 point... 3x3=9.. Lewis lost the whole season by 8 points, 9-8=1...
But no one accepts this, everyone is Lewis was robbed by Masi... Which is not factual, more correct is Bottas robbed Lewis, and hence Bottas was fired.. This makes more logical sense than saying car 44 was robbed...
What is wrong with a 12 run penalty instead of an out? It was a suggestion...Oh well..